Rolling stock

Huguenot   06/01/2017 at 10:46

That's the end of the electrification programme, then. Don't expect any wires east of Manchester, north of Kettering or west of Bristol.

Jimbo   06/01/2017 at 12:39

Electrification is the better solution overall, but National Rail have made such a mess of the Great Western electrification programme, it is inevitable that a more cost effective solution needs to be found. Assuming this works well, it is a neat solution. Of course, in a few years when bi-modes have become normal, the question is whether existing ageing electrification is worth renewing. The ECML electrification is 30 years old now and not ageing well, so will they retrofit the ECML IEP's to make them bi-mode and de-electrify parts of the ECML as it will be cheaper than renewing it ?

DS   06/01/2017 at 16:56

One limitation to the usefulness of bi-modes is the finite quantity of affordable oil remainingg in the ground. The move to electrification was supposed to be a hedge against dwindling supplies.

Raylec   06/01/2017 at 17:44

So we go back to Diesel -Electric! This set up is inefficient, and uses oil which we are trying to avoid. If you must use diesel engine,then use this to drive the wheels. An Alternator is extra weight,addition of motors more weight,and then all the loses in between,such logic!

Andrew Gwilt   06/01/2017 at 19:29

Suppose it is a brilliant idea but could cost a lot to fit a diesel engine onto a electric multiple unit train and could also operate on non-electrified routes across the North of England. Which seems a good idea anyway.

Simon Drake   06/01/2017 at 22:32

The idea is reasonable but it MUST use proper engines, not like the Ford Transit ones on the Class 230. Something like the MTUs on 170s or Cummins QSK derated to 600hp. Two of the Cummins would provide the same power as the overhead supply.

Mikeb   06/01/2017 at 22:47

Good idea, as it will allow Northern to eliminate some running of DMUs under the wires, such as Manchester Piccadilly - Buxton and, within a few years, Manchester Victoria - Southport via Bolton. There is a rumour that the first units are already being converted and therefore, the hourly service between Liverpool and- Blackpool North could also be restored prior to completion of the electrification from Preston.

J Webster   07/01/2017 at 09:25

Go anywhere train? Isn't that a DMU? New technology? Putting a Diesel engine in an electric train is hardly new! Seems like one step forward, two steps back. Looks like some electrication projects are under threat such as Manchester-Leeds, Preston-Blackpool and Wigan-Bolton.

Matthew Read   08/01/2017 at 21:59

I hope they end up on the lines in Devon and Cornwall because I go there every summer.

Pwt   10/01/2017 at 10:31

Matthew, I think that you are missing the point. The idea of the so-called bi-mode conversions as I understand is to allow the trains concerned to work beyond the limits of the overhead wire, taking into account the progression of the various electrification schemes in the North West. It would be pointless having a train carting around heavy transformers, rectifiers and control systems on West Country branch lines if such systems are never likely to be required or used.

Matthew Read   11/01/2017 at 23:10

True I just love the units and it would be nice to see them get a new life maybe Blackpool-Colne?

Bob Rainbow   18/01/2017 at 22:02

What power will the diesel engines have relative to the electric-powered trains? I fear vastly under-powered Diesel propulsion, very slow on the hills of the far-flung braches the Diesel is likely to be needed on.

Lee   19/01/2017 at 10:32

Maybe I am missing the point, but what is the purpose of strapping a couple of diesel engines to a 4-car EMU that is intended to replace 2x 2-car DMU's? No extra capacity, still using diesel powered trains that are less environmentally friendly than the EMU's in their original form. It is concerning that TOC's and others are seriously looking into this. Why has none of the Northern and Transpennine orders for new rolling stock included bi-modes, its all DMU's and EMU's? I find it amazing the Government and the 'North Powerhouse' wind-bags keep banging on about delivering HS2 infrastructure and associated purpose-built electric rolling stock to serve the North yet none of them can manage to electrify 40 miles of existing railway on-time and on budget. At this rate will HS2 end up being operated by DMU's with a pantograph strapped on them or third rail EMU's with a diesel engine?

Pedro   23/01/2017 at 00:08

Bearing in mind these units are 27 years old, it seems like a big investment for a "stopgap" solution, so it leads me to think that either (1) the promised north western electrification is being scaled back, or (2) the promised new stock isn't happening at it's promised level. Either way the NW continues to have poor and decaying infrastructure and stock for the foreseeable future.

Andrew G   20/02/2017 at 01:28

I think fitting new diesel engines onto the Class 319's is a brilliant idea since most of the Class 319's are to be cascaded from Thameslink to be moved to Northern England and it could operate on both currently electrified and non-electrified lines across the Transpennine route and elsewhere away from London.

John Burns   11/05/2017 at 11:54

The Lime Street, Liverpool to Chester service via Liverpool South Parkway (for the airport) through the Halton Curve once it is upgraded using 319 bi-modes is ideal. This would avoid the need to to pay road tolls on the new and existing Runcorn bridge. From the Halton Curve into Liverpool is all electric wires, which will keep Lime St station cleaner with no diesel fumes. This service could be operated by and incorporated into Merseyrail using their new adaptable future fleet.

Mikeb   07/06/2017 at 16:27

For anyone interested, according to Northern, Class 319 Flex will become Class 769.