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Andrew Gwilt   14/12/2017 at 16:06

I think that these new trains will be operated on London Fenchurch Street-Shoeburyness, Southend Central, Leigh-on-Sea & Laindon services via Basildon and Fenchurch St-Stanford-Le-Hope and Tilbury Town via Ockendon services (during peak times). And could transfer some of the Class 357/0's to be re-numbered as Class 357/3's to work on Fenchurch St-Grays via Rainham to work with the already re-classified Class 357/3's on those routes. And 1 Class 357 train to operate between Grays and Upminster (1tph).

Non-Plussed   14/12/2017 at 16:47

And what other routes would you expect to see C2c operate these trains on Andrew when they don't have any others? Really helpful (not)! Also a bit disturbed to read that 10 coaches will provide more capacity than the current 12. The inevitable reduction of seating therefore and more standing room? Mind you if the seats are as per modern standards, a plank would suffice!

Melvyn   14/12/2017 at 17:57

One problem with Tilbury loop services is the length of platforms at some stations which currently restrict trains to 8 carriages and extensions are difficult at some stations because of adjacent level crossings or bridges or both at either end ! Fortunately the original fleet in operation is still relatively young and thus can be retained and used to replace more 4 carriage trains with 8 carriages particularly on Fenchurch Street to Grays services which should be transferred to London Mayor / TFL Overground ownership with Trenitalia operation on behalf of TFL thus giving users the benefits of Mayor fares freeze !

Huguenot   14/12/2017 at 18:13

Good news for Bombardier, Derby and British-based industry! Fixed-formation trains save money on capital outlay, although off-peak they will be more costly to run as they will often be only half full. If a platform can't be extended to take 10 cars, then it'll have to be Selective-Door-Opening, as being fitted to Crossrail.

Clive Durdle   14/12/2017 at 22:00

If there is an issue with half empty trains off peak, why isn’t light goods being seriously considered? https://clivedurdle.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/the-armadillos-are-coming/ See also pt 2

Simon Eames1990   14/12/2017 at 22:30

No surprise here that c2c has orderd Aventras. I expect the 6 Class 387/3s to be transferred to GWR to join their 45 units.

Andrew JG   15/12/2017 at 00:23

Well at least that Bombardier will keep themselves and their employers and employees busy manufacturing the new Aventra EMU trains in the upcoming years ahead to be delivered for Greater Anglia, South Western Railway, London Overground, West Midlands Trains (London Northwestern Railway and West Midlands Railway), c2c and the Elizabeth Line. Plus new Bi-Mode Aventra’s could be manufactured for East Midlands Trains as the electrification has slowly started towards Corby and Kettering.

David Faircloth   15/12/2017 at 00:33

There does seem to be a lack of consistency as to what is being supplied. This report indicates that the sets will be fixed-formations comprising 10 cars, and as the image suggests that the c2c Aventras will be formed of 23m long vehicles, then the report makes sense; 10 x 23m = 230m, and as some services are currently formed from three sets formed of 4 x 20m long vehicles (240m total), certain platforms - including at Fenchurch Street - will be able to accommodate ten car trains. However, some reports state that Bombardier will be supplying c2c with 10 x 6-car sets; these could probably only work in multiple with other sets if each was formed of 20m long vehicles. Any more information available, please?

Andrew Gwilt   15/12/2017 at 02:45

Also I agree what Simon has said. The 6 Class 387/3’s (387301-387306) that were hired with c2c for 3 years when their new trains are to be delivered could be transferred to Great Western Railway and with the entire fleet of the 45 Class 387/1’s used by GWR could be re-classified as 51 Class 387/3’s (387301-387351) (previously 387130-387174) for GWR with 29 Class 387/1’s (387101-387129) still to remain with Great Northern. Or Gatwick Express could inherit the 6 Class 387/3’s (387301-387306) and to renumber them as Class 387/2’s with Gatwick Express still keeping the 27 Class 387/2’s but to extend their fleet to 34 Class 387/2’s (387201-387334) in total for Gatwick Express (previously 27 Class 387/2’s (387201-387227)).

Andrew Gwilt   15/12/2017 at 02:52

@Non-Plushed. c2c will still keep the Class 357’s but some could be converted to Class 357/3’s to work with the current 17 357/3’s “Metro” units that are currently working on Fenchurch Street-Grays via Rainham & Stanford-Le-Hope via Ockendon and 1tph between Upminster and Grays.

Andrew Gwilt   15/12/2017 at 03:03

Correction-34 Class 387/2’s for Gatwick Express (387201-387234)*.

Rail Fan Enthusiast   15/12/2017 at 08:50

Essex will see these new Aventra trains in service with Greater Anglia receiving their new Aventra trains from 2019-2020 that will operate on Liverpool St-Ipswich, Clacton-on-Sea, Harwich Town, Braintree, Colchester, Walton-on-the-Naze, Colchester Town, Southend Victoria and Southminster Great Eastern routes plus they be operating the London-Norwich stopper service. Aswell as operated on Liverpool St-Cambridge, Cambridge North, King’s Linn, Ely, Hertford East and Stratford-Hertford East, King’s Linn & Bishops Stortford West Anglia services. And Cambridge-Stansted Airport stopper service. Whilst c2c’s new Aventra trains from 2021 will operate on Fenchurch St-Southend Central, Shoeburyness, Leigh-on-Sea and Laindon semi-fast services during peak times.

J, Leicester   15/12/2017 at 09:50

Aventra-isation is the new Voyagerisation. The only silver lining of the MML not being electrified, if the network-wide standard of the final product is anything like the sardine can simulator exhibited in the GA mock-up, is that we won't have to endure this corporate experiment in cramming as many seats into as small a space as possible - c2c clearly planning similar if the reduction in coaches from 12 to 10 is anything to go by. I appreciate Meridians more and more each day.

David   15/12/2017 at 10:07

Andrew, these new Aventra units are specifically designed to be high density. There won't be need for any more 357/3s. As for vehicle length, I imagine these will be 10x23m, similar to the 345s.

David Ward   15/12/2017 at 10:36

Well Done for Bombardier to secure this order in a long line of tradition for Derby and its excellent work force. Eighty Five Years ago the famous 3 cylinder tank engines designed by William Stanier emerged from Derby Works for the London Tilbury and Southend Route of LMS Railway Company with there rapid acceleration between stops and gave faithful service on this route day in day out until the early 1960's. NRM York as the first one 2500 on exhibition as part of the National Collection. Its is good to see this tradition continuing with this order for modern rolling stock

Jak Jaye   15/12/2017 at 23:01

So more standing room only units sad to see the 387's go at least they were 'proper' trains not like the rancid 700/707s seats rock hard even cattle would complain! dittio bogies oh for the slam door commonwealth bogied units of yore

Rail Fan Enthusiast   16/12/2017 at 03:21

I think that the 6 Class 387/3’s will be transferred to GWR and to be reclassified to become Class 387/1’s making it the total of 51 Class 387’s (formerly 45) on the GWR Network or renumber the GWR Class 387/1’s to become Class 387/3’s. With 29 Class 387/1’s to remain with Great Northern. Or possibly the Class 387/3’s to be cascaded to Gatwick Express and to be reclassified as Class 387/2’s with the total of 34 Class 387’s on Gatwick Express (formerly 27 Class 387’s).

Andrew Gwilt   16/12/2017 at 10:58

@David. Right. I agree.

Jason Scott   16/12/2017 at 13:54

So let me get this straight, the 357s are leaving c2c right? If they are, will it be possible to convert them to dual voltage units and replace the southern 455s and the 313s that are bound to be replaced by 2021?

Andrew Gwilt   16/12/2017 at 16:06

@Jason Scott. c2c won’t get rid of the Class 357’s. That won’t happen.

Old Age Passenger   18/12/2017 at 09:57

Does high density mean the end of toilets on C2C as is the case with Crossrail?

Gandrew Wilt   18/12/2017 at 22:32

These new Aventra trains could be numbered as Class 381, Class 382, Class 383, Class 384, Class 386, Class 388 or Class 389. Or Class 391, Class 392, Class 393, Class 394, Class 396 or Class 398. Or Class 702, Class 703, Class 705, Class 706, Class 708, Class 709. Or Class 711, Class 712, Class 713, Class 714, Class 715, Class 716, Class 718 or Class 719. I could be wrong.

Andrew Gwilt   19/12/2017 at 10:48

You started it. Not me (person who is a troll and has spelt my name backwards).

Rail Fan Enthusiast Enthusiast   20/12/2017 at 15:27

I like that they could be used for electrified routes on the GA network. Like Marks Tey - Sudbury

Andrew Gwilt   21/12/2017 at 01:42

Ok. I guarantee that everyone will continue to say about Marks Tey-Sudbury. Whilst for me it’s becoming more and more boring. Continue with that crap.

R Nosgrove   21/12/2017 at 10:55

"Whilst for me it’s becoming more and more boring." Andrew - this is exactly how the rest of us feel as we wade through all your statements of the bleedin' obvious, questions you would know the answers to if you actually read the articles, and obsessive, repetitive fantasy rolling stock crap to find the few comments that are actually worth reading. Are you beginning to understand yet, or do you still think you're the only commenter who matters here? The moderators (if there are any) are obviously unwilling and/or unable to ban you, so if you continue in this way don't be surprised if other commenters, rightly or wrongly, continue to take the mickey.

Andrew Gwilt   22/12/2017 at 22:50

Like I said. Ban me.

Cock O' The North   19/01/2018 at 12:43

The comments on this thread have given me the best entertainment since Class 455s took over on the Sunbury branch, keep it coming commentators!